After suffering from DP/DR for 8 years, I think I've finally been able to see the forest from the trees. Right now I look at DP/DR not as something, but a lack of it. It is basically a state of non-living, lack of direction, lack of momentum, lack of life. This condition is far less complex, far less difficult to understand that sufferers often think. It is only the strangeness of it, the anxiety it causes, and the super-hight intelligence and creativity of the person that creates this mystic, giant, out-of-this-world state, which results in every single cell of your body and mind telling you you'll never ever get out of it.

And it's true, you can't get "OUT OF IT", because DP/DR in ITSELF is an "out of it" state. Out of life. So you need to get back IN LIFE, and DP/DR is gone. The solution is so simple and so easy that we miss it.

We tell ourselves things like these:

• This is a feeling I not only never experienced in my life, but never even thought that such a state even exists, it HAS TO have a reason.
• This feeling is so overwhelming, so "spiritual", that this reason HAS TO BE deep and huge.
• I FEEL like it is the end of the world, so it must be true.
• etc..

I believe the reason behind this is that ALL our lives our feelings kind of dictated our actions. We feel scared, our mind tries to find the reason. We feel happy, we know usually why and what to do. We feel anger, we know usually who we are mad at, or at least we think so. We feel hungry, we eat.

But DP/DR feels this whole system is messed all the way up. The first time in our lives we feel overwhelming feelings and have zero idea what they are, why they are, what to do about it, and on top of that, because of this "disconnection", we feel like we are even going mad, and no logical explanation can bring us out of the existential terror DP/DR causes / is.

Still, I tell you, DP/DR is NOTHING but a lack of life, lack of things to do, lack of momentum, lack of task or plan for the next minute. NOTHING more. 

Most of you probably

My answer is, no, you are not insane, and can't even become insane, but you are doing EVERYTHING that is humanly possible for a sane person to become one. So I suggest you to THINK about yourself as you are insane, so you may get your answers quicker.

I experience(d) DP/DR because of my narcissistic personality disorder. There are a lot of articles (I like Sam Vaknin's articles the most) about whether a Narcissist is insane or not, and I think that pretty much applies to DP/DR too.

Sam Vaknin says that some psychiatrists call narcsissists "borderline psychotic". And I think it describes the situation perfectly.

What does "borderline psychotic" mean?

I'd describe it as a SANE, even INTELLIGENT person having an EXTREME version of reality. You know about the classic psychotic example when someone believes that the FBI is after him, when in reality he committed NO crimes, been never in organizations that could have anything to do with FBI or authorities like that, is a totally average person with a normal job. But the person FIRMLY believes it is true. Now that

"Trick" is in quotemarks because it is not really a trick but rather a technique, "heal" is in quotemarks because you are not ill. But I use those words because trick indicates something that's easy to do (and it is), while heal is the word people with DP like to use.

I strongly believe t​hat self-deception is a key component in deperesonalization. Because I believe, DP (initially) is basically not much more, than when a person's idea of him/herself is not matching the reality of him/her (DP), and when the person's idea of the world is not matching reality (DR).

So, if you think about it, such a disconnection from reality can be caused logically by two things. 1.) The person is simply mentally ill 2.) The person lies to him / herself.

Now, since people with DP are AWARE that something is "off", to me, that indicates that they are totally sane. So, that means, they have to have some OTHER reason for self-deception.

Pretty logical, isn't it (comment below!)?

So I think, DP is usually (or at least in my case) caused by inner dynamics, emotional stuff, personality, rather than a simple dysfunctional thought process that could be controlled by will.

I believe this is why people get stuck in DP for years, because they constantly think about what they are DOING wrong instead of looking into themselves.

I'm a lot more careful now than I was when writing about DP, so I'm just suggesting that DP a lot of times, I believe is connected to a personality disorder, like BPD or NPD. It's a fact, that DP/DR always involves a kind of disconnection from reality, and I believe that is due to the "alternative narrative" that people with personality disorders have.

So what's the trick?
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The way I learned and am learning it is to learn to STOP thinking after a certain thought. People with PDs and DP/DR are throwing around pretty heavy and strong thoughts like it's nothing. For example, people with NPD like myself learned to simply IGNORE thoughts we don't like. This leads to serious disintegration, and after a while, DP/DR, which creates even MORE disintegration.

So for ANYONE who gets depersonalization, I'd strongly suggest a few things:

• Understand, that you have a few DYSFUNCTIONAL ways of thinking
• Understand, that it is 90% sure that when you try to solve your DP, you'll use the EXACT SAME dysfunctional thinking patterns that created it in the first place.
• If you understand the above point, you also understand that DP ITSELF is an illusion you have created. DEEPLY understand this. There is no such thing that you are not yourself. There is a reason that you describe it as "I'm not FEELING like myself." instead if "I'm not myself.".
• You have to EXPECT thinking in a faulty way.

So, I'd suggest to get a magnifying glass, and take a look at your thoughts from second-to-second, minute-to-minute, hour-to-hour, day-to-day, because all the answers are there, in you.

Narcissistic Personality Disorder and DP

As I learn more and more these things like DP and NPD (read: instead of doing what I actually want to do, read and write - otherwise valuable - things about psychological shit that won't create any progress in my life), I now see how DP is unavoidable for someone with Narcissism. 

So for ANYONE who suffers from DP and even slightly resonates with the idea that (s)he is a pwNPD (person with NPD), you have to know that solution for your life (not DP, life) is pretty simple: stop thinking you are special. Noone is special in a way Narcissists think they are.

How a pwNPD thinks about specialness? 

"I deserve everything good because I am [insert any REAL, imagined or exaggerated trait]."

instead of

"I deserve XY because I did [insert any real work, act, behaviour in the past]."

Do you understand the night-and-day difference (I guess you do, it's just for me, a pwNPD a big thing). A Narcissist may know that (s)he is EXTREMELY talented (maybe it's 100% true), and (s)he thinks that because of that, (s)he deserves to be rich. WITHOUT WORKING FOR IT.

Actually doing hard work for it is something that is HUMILIATING for

Derealization and depersonalization are mirror-images of one another. They are mirror-images of one another in what they bring about, and the phantasies that are their vehicles are mirror-images of one another in their content. In derealization we deny a part of the world: in depersonalization we deny a part of ourselves. In denying a part of ourselves, we come to regard it as dependent upon our thoughts and feelings: that is how we come to phantasise it. In denying a part of ourselves, we come to regard it as independent of our thoughts and feelings: that is how we come to phantasize it. Derealization, in denial, of some part of ourselves, in effect denies us a life altogether of our own.

Both derealization and depersonalization, carried far enough, lead to madness. Of the two, depersonalization is the more radical. It is the more radical in that, whereas derealization induces a depleted or erroneous picture of the world, depersonalization induces a confused or incoherent picture of the world. In point of fact the two processes are invariably complicitous.

I decided to stop writing this blog this way. I decided to only write my story. I will not delete any post since a lot of people told me the posts are helping them. I hope it is really true and I did not mislead anyone into my madness, and I hope that some of the posts was a real help to others.

But from now I decided to only write down my own story, with the highest level of honesty and accuracy I am able to.

Wish you all the best.

Sorry for everyone who read this blog. I realized I AM a narcissist. Still I don't think most of the posts aren't useful, but read them accordingly. Sorry if I mislead anyone it was not in my intentions. I hope you are all well.

few posts from me from this week:

Hello Lynda, I am glad if I help people with this blog, and yes, I did hard work to create these materials. Still, I realized I am a Narcissist. This is why I disappeared from here, I did so much bad things without realizing it, that lot of things from my past including this site reminds me of that. It is very painful for me, especially that there is no chance to make things up.

Thank you for your kind words, I may end up writing more posts.

Wish you all the best.

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 they have some hidden bad intention" That is exactly what I did back then, but still, it was not not even bad intention, just a false self which needed to be defended, and I could only defend it by devaluing others. 

Doesn't make sense? Well, it is pretty simple. Depersonalization means you lose a sense of self you have been holding onot. Now, the only "self" that can be lost is a false one, which is no longer able to provide you a sense of self. That is DP. 

Narcissism means that one is holding onto an unrealistic sense of self, which has no real basis in reality (cause of derealization). 

When I got a panic attack and DP, it was a time when my "artist" self, with it's unrealistic narrative got crushed by people who saw me from a real perspective.

That got me into DP. But unfortunately, even after reading so much about these things (some people said I became an expert), still, I wasn't able to help myself.

I went on trying to defend a dysfunctional self and I ended up ruining literally everything in my life.

If you guys feel like you are in a similar situation I was in, PLEASE, PLEASE don't be like me and save your life.

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Well, DP is a symptom of someone getting lost in his own indentity. Narcissists definetely get to a point with their confabulated self where they just can not rationalize away reality anymore.

As they go on with life with their irrational, overblown sense of superstar self, they get to a point where they need to DENY a significiant part of reality, and themselves. That is how they experience DP.

Of course I am not saying that everyone with DP is a narcissist.

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Narcissism is a tricky thing. A narcissist starts life with a confabulated, overblown ego, which sooner or later get crashed down. Now, problem is, narcissists usually super intelligent, and they always rationalize their own attention away from the real problem: they are living a lie.

Some narcissists, like me, DO get self-aware and do admit their problem, but usually only when it is too late.

Note that I am not a "born narcissist", I was not a narcissist until 20 years old, so I do understand where I went off-track. Other narcissists who develop this because of parental mistreatment, may be in a different situation.

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My biggest problem was back then, when I got panic attacks and DP/DR, that I BELIEVED people who told me that it is not serious. I believed that I will not go crazy, but I actually did.

When you feel like you are going mad, there is a REASON FOR THAT.

It is insane to just even think about the possibilities in my life if I would have taken this seriously.

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Well, it's a little bit complicated I guess. Yes, I acted like a full blown "standard" NPD in the last 9 years. So yes, how I operated in life is the typical cover narcissist. And no, I am not putting a percent more blame on myself than what is due. But, what is also true that I am literally not this person. You can think about me like a guy who perfectly imitated a narcissist. I do have a "real self" and I do feel empathy. But I did not "use" my real self and empathy for 9 years, and I did this without realizing this. My narcissism was like a "play" for me, and I never ever realized what I am doing. What I mean is, I never "confirmed" this to myself. It was like playing xbox but not in the way that it was a play to me to hurt my family and others. I really did not realize this. When I did, I was close to suicide. I never needed this, and I can not take responsibility for this because it was something I never was.

Thanks for you question, it is very late for me. I could go on here explain this.

What bad things I have done? Can't find the words. From my perspecive and from the perspective of who I am really inside, it is the worst possible. 

If I couldn't feel empathy I would not suffer the way I do now.

I will go on answering this but people waiting for me now so I need to stop. 

God bless you.

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Well Luke, I am a narcissist or not. Look, I am not a narcissist because I am not a narcissist inside. I am Gábor Szurdoki from Hungary, a guy who you never met. I never had a "developmental problem", let alone NPD. But at age 19, I started something which is EXACTLY what narcissists do. So yes, I am (was) a narcissist. It was like 9 years of not being yourself and not realizing it. I think I am a rare narcissist. I never needed it, I never meant it, it was just a game which I forgot I am playing. 

I will not get through this and there is nothing that is can be done. But I think I do have a lot of knowledge which you guys who are in similar situations can use, and I don't think there is a person on this Earth who feels more what NPD can cause.

Feel free to comment here or write me. I'll be back.

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I deeply hope that you are not going to go through the revelation I went through, if that happens, feel free to write me I'll give you my email.

If you are having sleepless nights because of what I wrote, that means you are heavily depended on mental concepts. "Inner objects". If you are getting scared, try to "root" yourself in things you KNOW are true.

I know it feels impossible right now. Both DP and Narcissism involves being so heavily "lost" in fantasies and mental concepts (and a false self) for so long that the person eventually loses touch with reality.

That in ITSELF is not a problem, but is a VERY dangerous situation.

People who tell you that DP/DR are not dangerous, on one hand, says the truth because for your HEALTH, they are REALLY not dangerous. But on the other side, they are the most dangerous situation a person can be in.

Never forget, that DP/DR means you are LOSING TOUCH WITH REALITY. Not in the way like psychotic people do, but it's VERY CLOSE.

It's not a coincidence that some experts say that Narcissism (being identified with a FALSE SELF concept) should be called borderline psychosis. It is really a very good description.

In DP/DR and Narcissism, one's psyche is intact, but the way the person uses it can literally destroy the person's life.

Anyone who is experiencing DP/DR, GET HELP. Don't give it a second thought, don't try to rationalize why you don't, because both in NPD and DP/DR, you is your worst enemy. DP/DR and NPD are both very intelligent disorders, because the person suffering from them is very intelligent.

And you can not beat your intelligence with your intelligence. Very dangerous thing.

Your sanity and logical mind will remain intact, but with time you can become what I call "social madness". Your mind is exactly as sane as everyone else's, but you are literally mad in the way you interact with people.

MAD means MAD. MAD means you are not being able to realize that you are MAD.

Get help. From family, from a psychiatrist, and from your sane mind which is there but covered deeply by fantasies.

Do not let DP/DR and your fantasies get you to a position where I am right now.


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You all have to understand, that one just can not "SLIP" out of DP, because DP/DR itself was not created in a second. I DO know that it can feel like it. One day you are okay, next day panic attack and DP wasteland.

Still, DP/DR is not developed in a minute, not even a day or not even a few months.

Back then, before, long before your DP started, you have already started building a "self" over very shaky foundations.

That's NOT something to get scared of. I DID. But now, as I look back, I KNOW that if my mind would not have been occupied with 1.) DP/DR 2.) my false self concept, I could EASILY solve my life, and now I would not be writing stuff here, I would live a life which is beyond beautiful.

But what I did? Did not take DP seriously (reading all day long about DP and reading everything you can google about panic attacks and DP DOES NOT EQUAL taking it seriously. Reading this forum and not doing anything either.), I read about it all day long, it became something like a hobby.

DP/DR started to become a part of my sense of self. My identity. 

I repeat DP/DR is VERY dangerous. Especially - and that is GOOD news for everyone who is going through this right now - that WHILE you are experiencing DP, you are STILL OKAY, your LIFE is still okay, BUT at the same time, you are LOSING a little bit of that life and safety EVERY DAY, EVERY HOUR, EVERY MINUTE.

But the STRONGER your DP is, the more it means that you still have a lot of chance to save your life.

My DP diminished with time, and I was thinking that oh it is okay. It DISAPPEARED. Well, yes. The WARNING SIGN that I am RUINING my life disappeared, because I did not do anything to save it.

REMEMBER: The ambulance is not in hurry when they take the dead body to the morgue.

This is a very crucial part in chronic depersonalization, and if you don't get to the root of this, I'm sure that you'll not recover to a healthy state. I'm not saying you can't recover from DP without it, but I'm sure you won't get the most out of your life.

If you grow up with a pathologic parent (I'm talking about NPDs and Psychopaths), then abuse is an inherent element of your environment. That's not your fault, not your weakness, nothing that you should feel any shame about, it is because the defect of the pathological "parent". A smart child senses that something is wrong with the parent, so therefore accommodates to it. That's a very smart thing to do. Accepting the bad situation, accommodating to the parent's abnormal behaviours, therefore creating the best possible life quality.

However, if you grow up, and don't go back (mentally speaking), and recheck your reflexes which you developed to an ABNORMALLY TOUGH childhood environment, you can be sure you'll cause yourself a lot of pain.

Some people say, to make a compromise, is a good thing. I disagree with them, but even they'd agree that making compromises with someone who intentionally wants bad to you (actively, like a Psychopath, or "passively", like a Narcissist), is definetely not a good thing.

For example, if you live with a psychopath, like I did, then you definetely learned how to make him cause the least possible frustration to you. The psychopath manipulates you, but by instinctively accommodating to the situation, you also manipulate him. That can be done by behaving in a way that makes him quiet or passive in a way that causes you the least problem.

The psychopath will never shut the fck up if he sees you feel happy. If you feel happy, relaxed and calm in a psycho's presence, you are asking for trouble. 

What I developed as a child, is to behave in a way that gives him only as much supply (narcissistic supply) as he needs to go back to his room and shut up, but not a bit more. This was the best possible thing I could invent in order to live a somewhat happy life as a child.

For example, this happened in ways like, okay, you are not letting me eat some cool food an play videogames at the same time, but here it is, I am eating some less cool food or not eating at all, and pretend like I'm a victim of you, so I can play video games without you coming and fcking with me.

This type of behaviour causes probably the best possible situation in a pathologic home, but if you keep these behaviours as an adult, that'll definetely cause you trouble. Why the hell I shouldn't be eating the best possible food I can afford, and play video games at the same time? What kind of thinking is that? Why do I have to pay for something good with something bad?

These types of implicitly learned reflexes play a HUGE part in depersonalization. Because depersonalization is basically this: "I am not understanding why I am acting the way I am acting.". Or you can replace the word acting with feeling. Or behaving.

Hope I helped.

To be continued.

When I started to do my studies about my past, in order to get rid of "depersonalization", there was a point where I watched Harris Harrington's videos, and he mentioned the so-called "narcissistic parenting". It definetely rang true, I knew that I have experienced something like the mentioned narcissistic abuse, but I couldn't really accept it the way he put it there.

Still, I researched more about the subject, because I knew he was right on a basic level. Soon after, I realized, that I was growing up under a "narcissist". Still, what I have read about narcissists and stuff like that, I couldn't accept it a 100%, as an explanation to what I was going through.

So I researched more, and there came a point where I realized the truth: I wasn't growing up under a narcissist, but a psychopath. Still, almost everything they have written about narcissist fitted my biological father.

Now, years later, something strange happened to me. I am doing business, and I was talking to a client / friend. And there was an obvious situation where he did wrong things to me, and when I confronted him about it, he gave me a very strange reaction. I was talking to him loud, and I knew I was right, and the subject was strong. Still, he didn't give me any emotional reaction. He got defeated in the argument, but he didn't sound like that.

This, and the lot of knowledge I acquired about psychopaths and stuff, made me realize something: the guys who say that narcissist is not the same as psychopaths, are right. The difference between the two is not much, and they are almost the same creature from the human perspective, but there is a difference.

None of the two has emotions, both lack empathy, none of the two cares about you dying or crying or being hurt or any kind of suffering. Both manipulates people, and none of the two cares about the suffering they cause. Both has an abnormal, delusional, incurable, inhuman fantasy of being God-like creature who controls human beings. The difference is the intention: a Narcissist only cares about being God-like, and only causes hurt by accident, while the Psychopath, while also has this narcissistic delusion, it WANTS to hurt. That's it.